20. From my limited
experience the concept Constitution seems to be a very well
written and considered document. After reading it through
twice it became more clear and does not leave any ambiguity.
19. I mostly agree with
the majority of the proposed changes but question the need
for the document to contain so much lengthy text when much
could be abbreviated; is By-Law A. STANDING ORDERS FOR
MEETINGS really necessary? Meeting procedure is widely
covered elsewhere e.g. \"Roberts Rules\".
18. Even after a couple of
reads, the constitution remains, as do all such documents, a
difficult document to take in completely. In general our
constitution is little different from that of many
organisations and as long as it can be amended by due
process then it is in good shape. My only real comments are:
a. Patron - We must not limit this position to within our
membership. Whilst we have many commendable members we are a
small organisation and that limits suitable individuals. A
patron must have a broad profile who is influential or
noteworthy in their own right; b. I concur that the election
of Officers appears too early in the agenda; c. The only way
to use 25 year memberships is by using those fees as long
term investments to maintain their worth but in an
organisation the size of the SAA such memberships seem
unsustainable.
17. Happy with the
Constitution. There is only room for so much consultation
before a decision has to be made. The questions above are
really outcomes from the accepted version of the
Constitution. It is a conceptual view on whether the
Association is federal or state based. I feel it is
preferable to have the Association federally focused. This
gives a consistency to the operation rather than relying on
the variable quality of the state branches over time.
There are views that if
the Branches ran the show then there may be more
participation, perhaps! It will be an inevitable outcome
that from a National perspective the Association would end
up looking like a rabble with strong state branches taking
the running and less political branches concentrating on
other issues. Sub-branches are a vexing question. In certain
condition they could be divisive.
16. This
represents an immense amount of work and has much to
recommend it. In particular it sorts out many discrepancies
and clarifies detail. But I fail to understand all of it,
and sometimes the reasons behind the suggestions. My
difficulties would be sorted out, no doubt, by verbal
discussion (probably a very long one) and this would be its
fate if it is to be adopted by the association. So I would
recommend that it be allowed to 'fly' as a basis for
consideration of change.
15. Unless
anything specific requires attention leave it alone.
14. While I do not believe in the unnecessary
fragmentation of branch numbers into smaller groups there
may be a case for a sub-branch recognition where a small
number of members live in a remote area and do not have
sufficient numbers to constitute a regional branch.
14. Response: I used to agree with sub-branches, but we
are a small group and to add another layer of complexity is
counter productive. We cannot get nominations to fill
Committee positions at the National or Branch level, imagine
a sub-branch with a handful of Members.
13. Agree with the concept Constitution,
particularly allowing for online voting.
12. Amendments to the Constitution require a 75% vote in
agreement (of those members present). In the event postal
and internet voting is allowed then the percentage 75%
should not change but be counted against the total number of
votes cast for the motion. I can see little or no benefit of
either voting at the branch meeting before the AGM or at the
AGM itself for issues relating to the constitution. There
will need to be some motions raised in real life at the AGM
including acceptance of the Office Bearers Reports that will
not go to a postal/internet vote.
Also if giving newly qualified submariners a free first
years subscription when they join that should be reflected
in the payment table at By Law D1.1.
11. Looks like a lot of time and consideration of
current issues have gone into this effort and it certainly
deserves to be considered as a basis for change at the AGM
10. 4.2.2 The first dot point is irrelevant. Surely
qualified submariners would only be Ordinary Members.
4.2.5 Too restrictive in getting the right man/woman to
represent us.
4.3.6 No arrears required to be paid should be added to
clarify this statement.
5.5 A limit should be stated both for each occasion and
Annually. Should also be part of Annual Report as individual
spends.
C3.2 First dot point. To what Annual limit? Third dot
point. To what Annual limit?
C5.2 Is the $500 an Annual allotment or replenished as
used.
C6.2 As above
9. I have read the report and tend to agree about the
need for any major changes in the Constitution. I do regret
not being able, for obvious reasons, to be more actively
involved in the SAA and its activities.
8. Q1 SAA should collect all monies, then give each
branch a sum of money per person in that branch if a member
is branchless the SAA wins. This will prevent the tragedy
that occurred in QLD a few years ago.
Q2 It is up to all of us to recruit new members, not SAA
or Branches.
Q3 There is no reason why a group of members who live in
a locality EG Coffs. cannot form themselves into an ad hoc
cluster and have social events or even host a Subcon under
the Branch in which they belong. The only fly that I see is
the border towns E.G. Albury/Wodonga or Tweed/Coolangatta.
Q4 All state constitution should be the same except where
state laws prevent this occurring
7. I believe that the SAA should be run primarily
by the Branches as many members are not participants in
their local branch activities because the Branches don't
know who they are and these members are not aware of who is
actually running the local branch. If the Branches are
responsible for collecting fees in the first instance then
they will have direct contact with all members within their
jurisdiction. This will make it much easier for Branches to
promulgate activities to local members and may bring some
more support from these members.
7. Response: I agree, it should, but some Branches
do it better than others. Your comments about not being
aware of who is running the Branch is a cop out, if they
attend then they will know. The Branch should also be
communicating to it's Members regularly.
6. I have always been happy with the
administration of the SAA and feel if you were to have each
individual state operate as in Question 2 Confusion and miss
management could occur.
5. Looks good to me we are in dire need of change
or we will go under.
4. On the question of all states following the
Constitution, this would be fine as long as it does not
stifle legitimate bylaws that suite individual branches. It
could have an adverse effect to recruiting.
3. I think that some states are just too big
for there to be only the state committee to run things. as
it is ,somewhere like WA, it is impossible to attend
meetings etc, as the age of most, travel time, accom costs,
meals etc is too great. depending on numbers in areas is it
feasible to have a committee member go to major meetings &
then report back to members in that area.
2. It would be good to centralise. The SAA
could dole out money on a membership basis. It would also
mean a bigger central pool to help those in need. I know I'm
a greenie but I did not really understand question 2??
2. Response: Some prefer the Branches to collect
fees and pay a capitation fee to the National body. Could
work if all State Committees were capable of doing this,
from what I have seen over the last 18 months, they are not.
1. Please amend 4.2.6 to read Commander Submarine
Force (COMSUBFOR). It needs to now be noted that the CDRE is
no longer COMSUBFOR and CAPTSM has now assumed this role.
Perhaps we should look at having as Vice Patron the Senior
Serving Submariner?
Concur that we should not limit ourselves to only having
a Patron that is a Life Member and going outside of the
Association would be a good idea. I would like to propose
that Rear Admiral Moffitt would make an ideal Patron.
Furthermore I think we should be recognising his service to
Submarines given his review and now his new role.
Overall this is a good document that has taken into
consideration a lot of feedback over the last few years
regarding the constitution. However, we need to put this all
to bed. Hopefully this will be accepted and we can get on
with the business of the Association rather than squabbling
which detracts members from remaining and attraction of new
members.
Doing things by email, vidcon or phone (group calls)
rather than trying to do it all at a SUBCON would empower
people to have their say in a much easier way. This includes
the on-line voting.
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17.
At
present I have a very busy work load and would probably not
get to involved. I joined the association so that I did not
completely lose touch with old shipmates. The association is
spread far and wide and all credit to the members who try
and organise meetings, outings etc. I am a member of
another association in the UK and they have a part time paid
admin staff who have a lot of drive and do some great work
promoting to members the need to keep involved at some level
(amongst other duties). Don\'t know if it would work here.
16.
Yes - but at a later date - I am still very busy working.
Anzac day tugged at the heartstrings to get involved then a
week away for work and the birth of my latest grandchild.
To
those who do all the work to keep the association running a
big thank you and a promise that I will do more in the
future. (Have done 28 yrs on committee at local sporting
club so I know the effort required.)
15.
I
think the SAA does what it can, with what it has quite well
for an organisation with no home bases and a membership
spread across the world. Our website must be our focus and
provide membership with services they need along with the
current content - BZs must got to Bungy and I am sure there
are others out there with webmastering skills who can
provide him with help. We don\'t want a dry and dusty site
like a well known skimmer site run by an individual with an
\'I\'m in charge attitude\' ... We need ideas on how to keep
our site and services current and meaningful to all ages.
Our face to face gatherings are also very important and I
believe Subcon is unique and I dream of the time when I can
get to attend. I cannot offer any personal involvement until
I finally hang up my safety boots, but I will do all I can
through the medium of our website.
14.
Would I get involved?
The eternal question. While I have some health I am on the
move. Things to do and see after a life in the mob. When you
join a branch and fail to attend meetings because you are
elsewhere seeing and doing, you are castigated for not
attending. Solution, don\'t join a branch to save the
floggings. Not everyone is tied to a locality so until we
can get a little understanding on such issues (which may be
seen as mid life crisis or second childhood) then a
willingness to belong to a branch but only randomly
participate is lacking.
I make a trip each Anzac
day to the town that I joined from. Attend the Naval service
and Anzac day with my mother. I have to be honest and say
that it would be no contest between that and marching with
my local branch. I have some intermittent time and would be
very willing to get involved in anything worthwhile at the
local or national level within the available time limits. As
time passes there will be more time at home and less away,
but hopefully that won\'t be tomorrow.
I cannot offer a prescriptive solution at the local level.
We are all different people with different interests. At the
branch level, participation can only be improved by sensing
the interests of the local members and maximizing the
attraction of a branch activity, be it a meeting, casual
function or event. The fact that so few are regulars
indicates that this aspect has a long way to go.
Nationally I have indicated from time to time that I would
be happy to work on anything offered within a time frame. No
inquiries so I can assume that at the National level you are
not normally short of bodies.
13.
IN THE CASE OF MEMBERS WHO ARE NOT REGULAR ATTENDEES OR NEW
TO THE ASSOCIATION TO EVENTS, FUNCTIONS OR MEETINGS, BEFORE
ANY TAKE PLACE LINE THEM UP WITH A BUDDIE WHO WILL TAKE
THEM. A LOT OF MEMBERS HAVE BEEN OUT OF TOUCH FOR MANY YEARS
AND DO NOT KNOW, REMEMBER OR FEEL COMFORTABLE GOING INTO NEW
PLACES OR WHERE A LARGE GROUP OF POSSIBLE STRANGERS MEET NOT
KNOWING ANYONE AND FEELING LEFT OUT.
12.
We need to promote the
Association more with the serving members. I have tried and
failed to illicit the support of the WO Advisory Group in
this unfortunately, however I am thinking of new ways to
attract more serving members. A lot think that the SAA is
something to join when they leave the ADF not whilst
serving.
I have recently spent the weekend in Albany for the USN
Subvets Memorial. Fantastic times with not only the SAA, but
our RN comrades, serving USN Submariners and those with
links to the USN Submariners. It is something that I will
promote amongst both the SAA and serving members. We now
have Orions Fin in Naval Memorial Park in Rockingham and the
Maritime Museum of WA in Fremantle are keen to build on the
Rememberance Service held there in November each year.
11. I don't
see any reason for change. I would like to be more involved
10.
Distance kills me, if I go to Sydney I generally need to
stay overnight if I have a beer or three. However I do
hope to get to a couple of branch meetings this year.
9. I think we need to be flexible on all levels. Meetings -
location and timings. Welfare to discuss decisions and how
to resolve things that arise. A tree to notify people who
may be close to a member to help each other when help is
needed. Storms, floods charity events etc. I think this sort
of help each other could help us all to stay in touch. We
always were helpful to each other when we served.
9. Response:
These would be
great initiatives, but are best dealt with locally.
However, involvement of members essential to make it work.
8. We need a closer fraternal relationship with the other ESOs especially the NAA and DFWA to assist in the fight
against the bureaucracy especially wrt to DFRDB indexation.
8.
Response: This is being
addressed at the National level by the appointment of
permanent Liaison Officers to the NAA, RSL, DVA etc.
Branches should do likewise.
7. To get more members involved with the monthly
meetings it might help to promulgate a list of who will be
likely to attend. This of course needs members to respond to
notices saying they intend to attend. Might be too
difficult!
7 .
Response: Not difficult, bloody
impossible.
6 .
Unfortunately us Country boys
are a bit far out (read into that what you like) to be able
to contribute successfully. I don't have any complaints
about the way things are done now. Our Vic gentlemen (even
though mostly POMs), do a great job.
5. Maybe move the meetings
around your state. I know some branches do this with limited
success, but we must keep trying. Maybe host the out of towners in your home and have a dinner on Saturday night.
We are one organisation not 8-9 or 15 just one
5.
Response: A great idea, get on to your
Committee to arrange.
4. My
Branch has tried to get many Social Activities running but
people just don't want to attend. Even the Branch Meetings
and local AGM's are only attended by the "frequent few" who
stand for office. I can see that in the future the
Organisation will fold if we don't get some "new blood" into
it because the "frequent few" will get burnt out.
4.
Response: This is the point I have
been trying to make, it is up to the Members to support
their Branch.
3.
I would
like to see a structure formed that would allow the day to
day running burden being shared. Most of us now are
"Computer Monkeys", retired and with the time to share and
help. e.g. If there are sub branches in a state or
territory that want to be involved in issues then the debate
agenda could be presented to the Senior Committee for
distribution. Meaning Social Groups are just that-Social.
Each Senior Committee to address the presentation to the
groups for discussion, then when all their groups have
replied forward the reply to the Association.
Items such as Membership for example, get the
state/Territory to be responsible? One area that could
assist the running of the Association.
My point is that by sharing these necessary functions
there is less pressure on management trying to perform a
millennium of tasks and having unnecessary responsibility.
Consider the areas gentlemen? Distribution Information,
State/Territory responsibility to their groups and
distribution of information (local).
2. I try to be involved by going to meetings in Canberra
but it is not always easy to get there.
Also I still believe the costs of AGM/Reunions is beyond
a lot of members that survive on just a pension, and costs
should be kept as low as possible by using cheaper venues we
don't have to have branches trying to out do each other with
the grandeur of the venues.
1. We in SAA QLD Inc have found (and voted on by
members) that a small joining fee for your respective branch
gives one ownership and a greater feeling of attachment.
Everyone is more likely to get involved. Social events are
enjoyed by one and all.1
Branches feel a curtain detachment from the National
Executive, I believe it is because we do not see or hear
from then throughout the year until a Sub-con comes around1.
If it was at all possible for someone from the executive to
attend at least one meeting with all branches this would
breach the gap and bring everyone closer. Sub-branches could
talk direct and have a sense of ownership with the National.
In other words brake down the walls. These are just my
opinions, I do not speak for anyone else even though others
may think the same.
1. Response: 1
This creates confusion, some charge, others don't.
Do you see this happen in other Associations that are
NATIONAL?
2
Communications is a two way street and I would argue that
more goes out than what comes in. I get very little
response from most Branches.
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